The following is a transcript of an interview with deputy national security adviser Jon Finer, on “Face the Nation” that aired on Aug. 4, 2024.
ED O’KEEFE: We turn now to Deputy National Security Adviser Jonathan Finer, thank you for spending some of your time this Sunday morning with us. I want to start with the fact that the United States, the United Kingdom, and Jordan are advising citizens to get out of Lebanon right now. Is the Biden administration anticipating Israel will strike inside Lebanon sooner? How real is the risk that a second front could open up in Lebanon?
DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR JONATHAN FINER: Well, Ed, what we’re trying to do is prepare for- for any eventuality, any possibility. That’s only responsible for the United States. Obviously, we’ve been quite clear that we will work with our ally Israel to defend itself against any threats that it faces. And we are in a moment that appears to be of heightened threat. So what we have said to our own citizens is should they choose to or desire to leave Lebanon, the time to do that would be while commercial options are available, as they currently are. Beyond that, obviously, these are personal decisions that we will leave to people to make. We’ve raised our travel advisory to Level-4, which discourages Americans from traveling to Lebanon, and we are preparing for whatever may come. But- but this is no prediction about future events. It is- is prudent planning for them and for our government.
ED O’KEEFE: Is that why the US is deploying additional fighter squadron to the Middle East and moving in other naval vessels?
FINER: So you’re referring to the announcement that was made on Friday, where the United States and the Pentagon said that we are moving a carrier, aircraft carrier group to the region and some additional air assets. That is entirely focused on defending Israel against a potential threats it may face. And out of our desire to both deter those threats, defend against them and ultimately de-escalate this situation and avoid it sliding into a regional war. We obviously had a very close call on a broader regional conflict on April 13, when the United States worked very closely with Israel, and with our other partners and allies to defeat a threat and attack that Iran made against Israel. And should that situation arise again, we want to be prepared to do it. But the overall goal is to turn the temperature down in the region, deter and defend against those attacks and avoid regional conflict, which has been our goal really since October 7.
ED O’KEEFE: We’ll continue monitoring that, as I know you guys will as well. I want to talk to you a little bit about the prisoner swap from this past week. The president and Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, especially focused on the case of Marc Fogel, an American school teacher still being detained by Russia. Why was he left out of this deal? And is it realistic to think he can be home by the end of the Biden administration?
FINER: So I want to say a few things. One, predictions about future events like this is not a business I want to be in. But we think about Marc Fogel every single day. And not only think about him, we work on his case every single day. And we’re going to do what we can to try to bring Marc home as soon as possible. We worked to try to get Marc included in the deal that consummated last week. And we are right back at it to try to get Marc back to the United States and unite with his family. Beyond that, I don’t want to get into the details.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, more specifically, what is the administration doing to ensure that the next Marc Fogel, or Paul Whelan, or Evan Gershkovich isn’t captured either in Russia or elsewhere?
FINER: It’s a really good and important question, Ed. And we’re doing a few things that are novel in this administration. One is we have created a list of countries for which there is a heightened alert for Americans who travel there that they may be detained, unlawfully or wrongfully, and we draw a lot of attention to places where we do not think Americans should travel for exactly that reason. A second, and this came about in work with Congress and under a statute called the Levinson Act, which has been passed. There are new sanctions authorities available to the US government against countries and officials who conduct these sorts of wrongful or unlawful detentions and we will deploy those as well- as well as the kind of public messaging of it that we’ve just been discussing about where Americans should and should not travel. Beyond that, we have also been clear, though, that the United States will work to get Americans in these terrible situations home and reunited with their families. That’s been a priority for the President from the minute he took office. We have a very good track record of getting these people back. And we’re gonna continue to do that, without any apologies.
ED O’KEEFE: On the issue of Israel-Hamas in the ceasefire negotiations, the President acknowledged that the talks were not helped by last week’s assassination of top Hamas- of a top Hamas leader while visiting Iran. How exactly did it set back the peace talks?
FINER: Well, look, we’ve been quite clear how urgent the situation is in Gaza and how strongly we feel and the President has said this publicly he has conveyed this privately to all parties, including the Prime Minister when he was in Washington a couple of weeks ago, that this deal needs to get done, that we need to bring the hostages home, we need to establish a ceasefire that ultimately leads to an end to the war and that helps us avoid the possibility of a regional conflict about which we’ve been so concerned. We were not involved in any of the various military and other activities that took place over the course of the last week. We played no role in them. But we are going to play a role in trying to de escalate this situation in exactly the ways I described, starting with deterrence and the defense of Israel should it come under attack again. In an overall context in which we are trying to avoid a war, avoid the conflict in Gaza from spiraling and spreading into other places. That’s been a strategic objective of ours, we’re gonna stay on top of it. And the risk is high, as you’ve said.
ED O’KEEFE: How frustrating is it to have him sitting in the Oval Office, saying I’m working on this ceasefire deal and haven’t had the Prime Minister go home to Israel, and have these assassinations of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders carried out, and you guys said you had nothing to know- you had no idea this was going to happen? It’s got to be awfully frustrating for the President and all of you, right?
FINER: Well, again, I’m not going to speak to any of the actions that have- that have taken place. I think we’ve been quite clear that our goal is de-escalation. Our goal is deterrence. Our goal is defensive of Israel. What I will say as part of why we think this hostage deal needs to get done so quickly, is that in this context, when there is so much going on in the region, and the risk level, and the threat level is so high, there are always these external events that can make the negotiations themselves much more difficult. I think that’s what the President was speaking to. And that’s why we think parties need to get back to the table and try to get this deal done. While we try to keep a lid on the overall situation and prevent it from spiraling. But, you know, this is the work of diplomacy. It’s not about frustration. It’s about keeping our heads down and keeping focused on the task at hand. And we’ve had clear objectives, and we’re continuing to work on them.
ED O’KEEFE: I want to bring you to a situation in this hemisphere, in Venezuela specifically, a situation quite grim. The Secretary of State on Friday, said that the opposition candidate won more votes than Nicolas Maduro. He also spoke with opposition leaders. Did the opposition candidate Edmundo Gonzales Urrutia win that election?
FINER: Look, we’ve been quite clear about that- that Edmundo Gonzalez got the most votes seen in this election. And what I think is interesting about the the current moment is that you have seen very few countries come out and ratify what the Maduro regime has claimed, which is that it won the election. You have seen a number of countries take a position that we’ve taken based on a whole range of factors, not just what the opposition claims, but exit polls, a quick counts that took place based on a significant percentage of- of actual data tally sheets from precinct level, voting places in Venezuela that suggest not only that Edmundo Gonzalez won, but that he won with a quite a considerable margin. And so what we are focused on now is conveying to the regime that it needs to focus on, if it believes that it won this election showing its work, showing the data, which it has refused to do and I think we know the reasons why that is the case. And if not, embark on a transition back to democratic norms in Venezuela. We are working very closely with key countries in the region that have influence in Venezuela, to try to stay on the same page and build a coalition for a process that will ultimately lead back to a transition to democracy in Venezuela. That’s been our goal from the minute this administration arrived.
ED O’KEEFE: But given that Maduro is likely to stay in power, at least for now, is the United States anticipating another influx of migrants from Venezuela?
FINER:Â I guess we’ll have to see how that all plays out. I mean, one of the things that- that we’ve been quite clear about as well, is that the detention of anyone involved in- in protesting peacefully against what the regime has claimed is- is not acceptable to us. We are concerned about the prospect of- of instability, should there continue to be these detentions. And we believe that the regime should do the right thing, acknowledge the actual results of this election and embark on the process of transition back to democratic norms. And we, as we always do, are planning for and preparing for any contingencies that could arise from the situation which we’re both watching very closely and engaged in diplomatically, to try to steer it onto the proper course.
ED O’KEEFE: Engage diplomatically. But you know, it dawns on me that while the President is directly engaged in getting detained Americans home, understandably so, directly engaged with the Israeli leader on the situation released, I’ve not heard of direct engagement by the President, either with Maduro or others in Venezuela. Would presidential engagement on this potentially lead to a faster resolution? Is it worth it to have him directly engaged?
FINER: First of all- First of all, Ed, I would say the President has been directly engaged on this problem. He- he spoke with President Lula of Brazil, which is perhaps the country among our partners that has the closest relationship with the Maduro regime, to plan and coordinate exactly on the set of issues that I’ve been describing. He made that call last week and he will continue to engage if we think it will be helpful to move this onto a better course than it’s currently on. So one, the President has been engaged; two, others in our government at senior levels have been engaged with a range of partners, including the Venezuelan opposition. Again, with a goal of embarking on the sort of transition that the results of this election and the will of the Venezuelan people show is the right course of action.
ED O’KEEFE:Â All right, Deputy National Security Adviser Jonathan Finer, thank you for your time. We’ll talk to you again soon.
FINER: Thanks very much, Ed.
ED O’KEEFE: And we’ll be back in a moment.